Research Information - Formulas

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mdutch
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Research Information - Formulas

Postby mdutch » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:41 am

Here is a list of some formulas. When you open the file you will find a list of several formulas listed as sheets on the bottom of the excel file. The CZ White is a simple formula that can be hand mixed and is great for a first mix. Each formula can be adjusted on the top left section by changing the casting tube diameter, the length, the core size, and the amount you want to make. Once you plug in your specs the amount of each chemical needed will automatically adjust for your batch.

Good luck, any questions can be posted to the MRSI forum link and they will be answered as I am watching this. ;)
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MD Propellants ODF 2.xls
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Mike Dutch
URRG & MRSI Founder
TAP L3CC
"I just want to fly ROCKETS"

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patelldp
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby patelldp » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:47 am

Mike,

I took a look at these formulae. Have you made and fired all of these?

Your "Blue Flame Fast" has 4.80% of BIO. That's going to cause horrific burn stability and is really not necessary. Not much is known about catalysts in higher percentages, but my guess is that you'll see a similar burn rate using 50% of that that amount.

Your "Ultra Violet" also uses aluminum, zinc, and 1.33% RIO. Thats a LOT of RIO. Also, how is it violet?

To give you an idea, this motor used 1% RIO in the top 2 grains, 0.25% in the bottom 2 and bubbled a 98mm case:

Image
Dan Patell
TRA 10904 L3

PGagnon
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby PGagnon » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:04 pm

Dan

Nice !!!!!!

Did this mix have MG in it?
What Kn range was this fuel at?

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patelldp
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby patelldp » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:57 am

PGagnon wrote:Dan

Nice !!!!!!

Did this mix have MG in it?
What Kn range was this fuel at?


Top 2 grains were 7% Aluminum, 1% Red Iron Oxide, 82% solids. Bottom 2 were 7% aluminum, 0.25% Red Iron Oxide, 82% solids. the motor was kind of weird in that it used 17% of propellant, so the geometry was four (4) 4.25" long grains with 1.5" cores and a 0.85" nozzle throat.The result was a very regressive burn profile with a max Kn of 239. IIRC, the motor is likely to have been ~7000Ns with a 2.5s burn time making it an M2800. I can pull the Raven file later.
Dan Patell
TRA 10904 L3

mdutch
Posts: 72
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby mdutch » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:21 am

patelldp wrote:Mike,

I took a look at these formulae. Have you made and fired all of these?

Your "Blue Flame Fast" has 4.80% of BIO. That's going to cause horrific burn stability and is really not necessary. Not much is known about catalysts in higher percentages, but my guess is that you'll see a similar burn rate using 50% of that that amount.

Your "Ultra Violet" also uses aluminum, zinc, and 1.33% RIO. Thats a LOT of RIO. Also, how is it violet?

To give you an idea, this motor used 1% RIO in the top 2 grains, 0.25% in the bottom 2 and bubbled a 98mm case:



Dan, I have not made everyone of these formulas but I have made and burned around half of them.

Also based on what you state here I think you may be mixing up a couple of the columns. Like with the "Ultra Violet" I see you are taking the weight of 1.33 grams of RIO from a total batch of 600 grams of the batch size when the percentage column right next to it states that the weight equals .22% of this batch.

Ultra Violet is one of my favorite mixes, (it is also a mistake I made once while making a batch of CZ White once), I've made it in 29mm up to 98mm and when burned it seems to have a slightly violet hue to it. But it has also been nick named Ultra Violent due to the way it can make a rocket disappear in the blink of the eye. It's VERY fast.
(I was able to figure out what I did after burning it due to the fact that when I mix I write everything down in my log book)

I'm the type of research mixer who likes to take someone else's formula and make it and fly it, all of the formulas here were developed by someone else and borrowed by me. I have around 150 formulas of which I have actually only mixed a small percentage of.

I'm just now getting into tweaking a formula to see what it does and I'm using advice from Paul Gagnon to do it with, he understands chemistry a whole lot better than I do.
Mike Dutch
URRG & MRSI Founder
TAP L3CC
"I just want to fly ROCKETS"

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patelldp
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby patelldp » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:37 am

mdutch wrote:
Dan, I have not made everyone of these formulas but I have made and burned around half of them.

Also based on what you state here I think you may be mixing up a couple of the columns. Like with the "Ultra Violet" I see you are taking the weight of 1.33 grams of RIO from a total batch of 600 grams of the batch size when the percentage column right next to it states that the weight equals .22% of this batch.


My bad, I had noticed before that I was mixing up columns, but I did it again.

mdutch wrote:Ultra Violet is one of my favorite mixes, (it is also a mistake I made once while making a batch of CZ White once), I've made it in 29mm up to 98mm and when burned it seems to have a slightly violet hue to it. But it has also been nick named Ultra Violent due to the way it can make a rocket disappear in the blink of the eye. It's VERY fast.
(I was able to figure out what I did after burning it due to the fact that when I mix I write everything down in my log book)


Not sure where the hue would come from.

mdutch wrote:I'm the type of research mixer who likes to take someone else's formula and make it and fly it, all of the formulas here were developed by someone else and borrowed by me. I have around 150 formulas of which I have actually only mixed a small percentage of.

I'm just now getting into tweaking a formula to see what it does and I'm using advice from Paul Gagnon to do it with, he understands chemistry a whole lot better than I do.


Nothing wrong with that. Give Plain Jane a try and run it through your characterization set up. 5% Al, 0.1% RIO, 82% solids. It's pretty simple and burns great.
Dan Patell
TRA 10904 L3

R.4L
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby R.4L » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:22 pm

:geek: Mike I noticed that the simple green fast and slow formulas are exactly the same, was there a transposition error on your excel spreed sheet?

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patelldp
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby patelldp » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:44 am

Here's the flight data from my M2800 flight.
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Competitor5_M2800_11_17_12.FIPa
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Dan Patell
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mdutch
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby mdutch » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:42 pm

R.4L wrote::geek: Mike I noticed that the simple green fast and slow formulas are exactly the same, was there a transposition error on your excel spreed sheet?


Roger I just replaced the slow green with Dan's Plain Jane, I'll email you a copy if you like.

I'm sure if I compared all of my formulas I would find a few that identical like the two greens were, OH well.
Mike Dutch
URRG & MRSI Founder
TAP L3CC
"I just want to fly ROCKETS"

R.4L
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Re: Research Information - Formulas

Postby R.4L » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:02 am

Yes, please do that


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